the story is that carney crashed ben barcewski (sp- kirk?)... and so in retaliation fueled by years of hatred andy lakatosh took him out...
i got this clip from carney who feels like it exonerates him of any wrong doing in the crash.. but the camera doest show it all and i cant really tell what has happened to lead up to the crash... carney says it shows that ben crashed himself.. but i plainly see carney chopping down hard onto ben...
you could speculate that the only reason to be so high is to lure the guy under you so that you can chop down on him... its common to do this if you are leading out a guy who is faster than you.. and who, if you stayed low to take it in a staight up sprint, would easily come around... both carney and ben are sort of flicking up and down the whole time... thats sort of normal... but i guess protecting your space and impeding progress are different things even though they look the same...
i wasnt there and thats just speculation.. but you cant tell... and that just might be racing.. what can you say?...
but i do really feel sorry for the poor argentinian guy who got taken down in all this.. i bet he doesnt have any beef with anybody... which is not easy a that track...
click here to see the clip.. its 8min...
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Damn that last one looks pretty deliberate.
i see it as carney going high to have ben go over the top then shoot down and have ben in the wind. carney was holding his line and looked like ben rode up knowing carney could possibly be doing this to shut the door on him. that was ben's fault. if you look at it carney doesn't flick his wheel or anything.
Yeah if you pause it about 1-2 seconds before the crash you can plainly see carney holding his line while ben has his front wheel overlaped on carneys then bam... at that speed woulda coulda shouldas really dont mean squat..thats racing...crazy stuff happens...but what took place at the finish line was maybe the dumbest thing ive ever seen...
yeah the finish was dumb. reminds me of the gaggioli race a long time ago on espn i think. i really can't remember all of it. but someone else won and i think the dude had his hands off the bars and gag passes him after the finish line and kicked his handlebars. i think the guy might of broken his leg. i remember the camera crew asked gag about it and he acted like nothing happend and didn't really respond the him crashing the guy at all.
I see Carney accelerate, riding up into turn and maybe cooling it, then flips down expecting ben to pass high (looks like carney is looking under his right arm) but ben holds line just below and carney comes down on him
relook at it bro. he doesn't come down. ben is going up. look at carneys line. ben put his wheel where he shouldn't have. overlapping wheels like that going into a turn is not a good idea.
alright... ben floats up w/ carney but carney shifts down and that's where / why it happened. I'm not saying carney did anything wrong but saying that carney was holding his line just isn't so. when i saw that carney was looking for ben to come around right as this happened i was satisfied that carney's shift was to get ben to come around high instead of to cause wheel contact.
the thing is we don't know all of it and what carney was trying to do. if carney was trying to crash him he did a great job of hiding it. it is so subtle of a move i don't feel you can say carney tried to crash him. i've been in the sprint in many big crits and seen guys do stuff a lot more dangerous then this. the race looked nothing compared to keirins in the world championships.
i think its just racing... but i do see some flicking around by both of them before they actually open it up...
i have done about two kierins.. and i gotta say that i wouldnt have gone under so close and had my wheel overlapped like that...
my technical analysis?...
ben came up- carney chopped down...
when i am there i know that those guys ride all irratic like that and i just give them room to ride all crazy...
i dont really like it because stuff like this can happen...
and yeah... andy straight putting him down was not very cool at all...
Carney didn't chop down. The problem was the transition into the turn - the reason that BB's wheel touches Carney's is because A) he's under Carney at B) the time Carney transitions from the flatter section of the straight to the higher banking angle of the turn. This leans Carney's wheel into BB's. Don't believe it? Look at the slo-mo replay about 4:15 into the vid - Carney is holding parellel to the blue line when BB crashes, and doesn't start down track until at least 2 pedal strokes after BB goes down.
This crash is 100% BB's fault, period.
The Gaggioli race you are talking might be the one where he kicked John Brady's fork. Major leg breakage on John's part, nasty scars to prove it. Pretty much ended his career. Ever wonder why Gag never got interviewed by the WCS at CapTech?
Didn't look like Carney was coming down, but bro been pissing folk off for years with his hyper-ass style, so it's not at all surprising that Andy took in personal. I'd jump at the chance to take Carney down a notch - maybe not quite like that, tho.
why weren't they commentating on the fights in the infield after? that one fucker's dad got mad pissed, olympian or not.
Not cool ?! That's a huge fucking understatement.
Lakatosh's actions put Carney in obvious danger, but also put all the other riders in danger.
His actions were well outside of the nature of racing and amount to assault. This occurred after the finish line.
He should get a minimum one year suspension to be consistant with what Mercer and Gaggioli faced for similar actions in the last couple of years.
carney says they are giving andy lakatosh 3 weeks...
yeah brady was the dude.
Lakatosh is getting 3 weeks suspension from T-Town. There is also (I hear through my grapevine) a USAC investigation. That will probably result in a stiffer penalty(ies).
It's never boring!
lvvelo.org has an official statement about it. lakatosh: what a douche.
well thats that then isnt it?... i got an e mail from carney (including this clip) asking for us all on his e mail list to review the incident... in it he said that lakatosh was getting 3 weeks and hinted that it was light, that he should get more.... but carney didnt say anthing at all about this business of his retaliation!...
sneaky guy that Jay- Mee...
I'd be pretty mad if Lakatosh got less than a year's suspension. This is an assault, and in no way can it be considered "just one of those things which happens in racing". The possible injuries were unlimited.
The first fall looks like Keirin as usual to me. As for Carney's reaction afterwards - I'd cut a guy a heck of a lot of slack when he has been a victim of something like that.
Who am I? Not part of any of the T-Town factions. Until this I had a positive impression of both Carney and Lakatosh. Ben darts around the track too much for my taste, but that's not the issue here.
i am surprised and impressed that the track is being so lenient...
whatever happened, there should be the same punishment for the same action... so carney and lakatosh should both get the same thing... its not as if anyone took the high road apparently...
i bet in the end they are both happy with 3 weeks and a probation... i cant see what carney would have to be upset about since he made the same move as andy...
except for that maybe he didnt do a good job of taking andy out...
both of them, were down right unsportsmanlike...
none of these guys are victims and they are all just so far down in the slop...
except the argentinean guy as far as i know... i feel bad for him...
nobody would crash me like that, and i wouldnt do that to another guy either... but if i did get put own like that i can tell you that i would get up and forget it...
thats what brady did.. he is a freind of mine... he just forgot about it... it ended his career, but he took the high road.. thats class folks...
i was wondering what brady did. if you are correct that is awsome. no way could i do that.
do we know the details of carney's retaliation? it just says he tried to pull him from his bike, right? what did he do? get back on his bike after his spill and chase down lakatosh and try to take him out? the video shows him lying on his ass and then doing a cool down spin in the infield. if he just chased lakatosh down and tried to fight him, that's not, in my mind, the same as pulling a guy's bars when he's not looking. lakatosh would have been smart to have been in a karate stance by the time carney got up and got to him.
Carney took his shoes off and ran up the track in turn 1 and tried to pull Lacky from his bike. Quite commical looking from where I was sitting on the infield. My take on it is that Carney didn't try to crash Ben, he just wanted to make it really hard for Ben to pass him. He obviously heard Ben coming which is why he went so high in the turn, as they enter the transition, this scrubbed his speed just enough so that Ben (not the best bike handler to begin with) had no where to go. This is what puts Ben under Carney, he wasn't trying to go between him and Freidman he was just out of control and most likely hoping that if he floated Carney would eventually head down track and give Ben a chance to try and pass. It just so happens that Carney headed down track when Ben was underneath him. A blatant and intentional move on Carney's part because the guy is one of the best bike handlers in the world, queer as a plaid rabbit, but a good bike handler. He didn't want to crash Ben, just make him back pedal hard and kill his momentum. Ben being young and stupid refused to do this and crashed. Sergio Quatto got the short end of this deal, crashed hard on his face and broke his Corima frame.
No one is mentioning the fight between Carney and Marty that occured in turn one. I've heard that Marty was fired from his position as COO on Friday of last week. Of course this is just a rumor... Now Jame, stop pressing charges and suing everyone it makes you look like a petulant child. This includes people who were trying to break up the fight between you and Marty, the officals, the velodome staff, Hubert Scheigh on lap cards and bell and the ticket takers for the evening. They didn't do anything.
The only problem that I have with your synopsis is that JC was holding parallel to the stayers line when the collision with BB happened. It was after BB's front wheel was clipped that Carney moves down track.
This commment only deals with the crash with BB. If that was a chop, it was the weakest and smoothest one ever. More importantly, as steve points out, it happend completely after ben started to fall. Carney can't be held responsible for that crash beyond the fact that he was going slower than Ben thought he was.
Thanks for putting this clip online for us all to view! I hope Lackatosh gets something for this! Everything before the finish looks like a clean kerin; kerins are messy and do have some movement. Carney had his team well set up, props to him!
Somewhat off the subject but i think its a point to bring up. The underlying consequence in all of this is that the lvh velodrome gets the short end of the stick. Granted some may argue that more people will come hoping to see meley but i think the opposite. Last year i remember seeing a whole hell of a lot more velo commercials on the local tv.
This year except for a few adds in the paper i havnt seen much press. Heck i few weeks ago i didnt even know opening night was that week until someone asked me if i was going at the thurs night crit. Just curious as to peoples feelings on this...
right before BB gets knocked down it looks like jame tries a similar move on lakatosh. he moves uptrack a bit, then swerves back down when he sees andy try to come from underneath. maybe he almost crashed him and thats why lakatosh was such a poor sport at the end? either way though...3 weeks is a stupid short penalty for something as f-ed up as that. woulda been pretty funny if lakatosh knocked himself over at the finish too...im sure carney woulda kept him on the ground.
racing is racing but that was a punk ass move by Lakatosh.
and Carney hardly moved off his line. BB was all over the place the entire race and put his front wheel in the wrong place.
that is just crazy! having watched jame race for the past 7 years, that was about the most typical move you could expect from him. laying off, then blowing past his lead out rider. yeah, he went a little high, nothing strange there. there is no way BB should have ever considered going underneath like that. there is a reason why on your first day at the track they say, "dont go underneath" this is why. you crash. simple. obey the rules, and you wont crash. grow up and learn to race your bike. as for lakatosh? seriously. give up. dont be such a dick.
As I look at this vid a few times I realize that Lakatosh's assault on Carney probably has nothing at all to do with the Ben Barczewski crash. As I look at the seconds preceding the crash it looks like Carney is doing a bit of deliberate flicking which results in Lakatosh's front wheel being hooked and him taken down onto the apron of the track. This is what causes Lakatosh to lose momentum and lose carney's wheel giving Barczewski the chance to move into that position. Its a bit hard to see since the camera doesn't quite catch it all, but you can tell what is happening. I think it is this ineraction between Carney and Lakatosh that led to the handle bar slap. Damn this thing is better than the Zapruder film.
The spectator turnout looks low. Is this the norm now?
yup...pr sucks
maybe after jr. nationals are there, more spectators will show up. I remember seeing a Friday night there several years ago, it was awesome
pr in t-town is better than major taylor velodrome in indy...atleast in t-town they pay money inorder to lure "some kind of talent????"
Brutha' please. Why are we discussing Ben's crash? That was racing and shit happens. But Lakatosh's dick-move after the finish is the most unsportsmanlike behavior I've ever seen in bike racing. Granted, Mercier's haymaker on Adam Myerson was horrible but that was an off-bike incident that hopefully was not seen by too many. But WTF was Lakatosh thinking? LVV on a Friday night at the finish line? What a fuggin' moron!
Andy Lakatosh should be suspended from USCF racing for at least 12 months.
amen to that last line
yo anyone know if sergio was alright?
Dude, any comparison with the Myerson situation are completely bogus. That vegan bastard had that shit coming to him
Dude, any comparison with the Myerson situation are completely bogus. That vegan bastard had that shit coming to him
Is anyone else haveing trouble getting the entire video to play?
No...loser.
Can we get the Myerson video up here? This is like watching the UFC. Mad niggaz gettin ferked up!
I don't know if that's a good idea. He's getting all pissy with me because I jokingly insunuated that he deserved it. The guy's a bit sensitive, and any additional references to the incident might hurt his feelings more than necessary.
You can see a really great fight video here, though:
http://www.cafepress.com/burt_hoovis.11951951
I have seen some pretty delibrate crashes in my lifetime, but this one never looked deliberate.
Did Carney DESERVE to be crashed for Bens mistake? No way! Does Laky deserve to be suspended? You betcha....and maybe 24 months of anger management therapy...
Speaking of deliberate crashes...I heard that there are a bunch of guys who crash at Tim Unkert's mom's house all the time.
I don't know who to blame, but I can tell you that the feeling that I got from all of this is that Laky did what a lot of racers have thought of doing. If Jame's reputation wasn't what it is, I don't think we'd even be close to blaming him for it. A dick got dicked.
Wow, you mean that you've thought of going over and deliberately wrecking people who are better that you?
You ever felt the need to talk to a professtional about those kinds of feelings?
I was referring who to blame on the first wreck. In no way to agree with what Laky did, that was straight up assault. My point was that I've heard many people talk about Jame's lack of profesionalism and antics, and that is what put the first wreck into question. I personally don't feel like he chopped down on Ben, but the fact that he is a dick made me think about it being intentional.
By the way Burnt Mothersuckin' Hoebag, don't come over hear trying to hijack someone else's shit because no one reads your thoughtless bigot blog.
Burnt Mothersuckin' Hoebag...that's good.
Anway, who the hell cares about what someone might have maybe said about someone you heard about some shit kinda. Dude rolled up on the guy and purposely wrecked him...even if all the crap anyone about the guy is true, it still doesn't justify that behavior. Period.
and yeah, my blog sucks...so what?
Hoovis and Mouth Disease, did you read the post about Menzies? Wait, I'm sure since you are glued to this site and have no life, you have. Well my point is that you get what's coming to you. It may be through an action that is in the wrong as well, but had he not been such a prick, no one would have thought Jame did that intentionally. More importantly, Laky probably would have not put him on his ass. You, BMH, are a piece of work, and I'm sure that your loneliness is the equivalent to turning your bars.
Loneliess? I'm married with 3 kids, and as soon as I bang the old lady, I'm going to watch the last climb of the tour (thankfully, my race doesn't start until noon).
But anyway, I think your cosmic view of the thing is pretty quaint...as I'm sure that you like to get yours 'in the end.'
You folded and resorted to giving me your personal story, and that's weak Hoovis, weak. I own you, thanks for the comedy. One last post for you though.......I'll tell you what is quaint:
-The turnaround on responding to anyone that disagrees with you is minutes. You said you have 3 kids, get off the damn computer and be a dad and husband.
-The fact that you have to increase your manhood by stating you are going to bang your wife. Don't forget the blue pill. You said that you were going to do that, then watch the last climb. Ironically, the climb started 2 minutes after you posted. Your new blog: minutemanhoovis.blogspot.com
-You have 3 kids, yet have this bigotry logged mind with your posts about lesbians and rednecks. I'm glad that you figured out no one was reading the crap and stopped posting your mindless thoughts. Stop now or your insecurities will pass on to your kids and my kids will have to OWN them like I've done you.
Signing off.....Burt's Motherfuckin' Daddy!
someone actually shut that dude up?
Sorry I am so late...
"As I look at the seconds preceding the crash it looks like Carney is doing a bit of deliberate flicking which results in Lakatosh's front wheel being hooked and him taken down onto the apron of the track."
-anon.
This is definitely the case. I am not so sure they made contact, but Carney's move definitely took Lacky out of the sweet spot. The incident preceding the crash definitely shut Lacky down, and could have been construed as a much more deliberate crashing...had it happened. The BB crash that happened afterwards may have only fueled what Lacky did, but he was definitely more pissed about actually backing off from Carney's flicking. Thats just keiren-induced selfish human nature.
Here is what I think.
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