that's right, if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear. just like if you're not a terrorist, you shouldn;t mind the government listening to your phone calls, reading your email, keeping track of all your credit card purchases, etc.
of course, the UCI is also the org that let the press have access to armstrong's confidential test results 7 year, who smeared white-out all over landis's sample records... but, yeah, you should trust them with your DNA.
I get what you're trying ot say, but what you DID say could be mis-interpreted into a whole other argument (i.e. "How do i know my Urine isn't tampered with", etc.)
I think I would be deeply concerend about mandatory DNA testing.
What if I tested positive for Parkinson's or some other genetic risk factor? Can the insurance company's get acces to that information? Would it be admissable under supenea for any of the 400 paternity disputes per year that I get from all of JMurder's female relatives? If Hamblen tested positive for two X chromosones, does that mean he has to now compete in the women's race - EVEN IF IT IS DOWN'S SYNDROME?
These are all important issues of civil rights and privacy that need to be carefully weighed.
You've got a very good point, but don't we already charge more for health insurance for those who smoke? Where do we draw the line? If we found bags of blood at USA cycling headquarters and the only way to prove who's blood it is required dna testing, what should we do?
Life insurance, yes. Health insurance, NO, well not yet anyway... So the next time everytime you see some retard lighting up a cancer stick, feel warm and fuzzy that you're subsidizing the retard's health insurance.
Wait, Um, so if I develop Parkinson's (or ALS, MS, Cancer, etc.) that makes me a "retard"? Or is it something I do -that developing Creutzfeldt-Jacob from eating meat is commensurate with getting Lung Cancer from smoking?
If you're going to make a counterpoint you might want to think a little more clearly about epedemiology and chance vs. choice.
Anyway, all that is off-topic bullshit.
1) If the WADA can't keep track of bloodsamples then what the fuck are they doing condemning cyclists to career death on the basis of blood tests? 2) Do you know what it takes to to a DNA signature? Even mRNA? Do you really want to spend WADA into the ground having them run these tests to keep a record on hand of any cyclist who might possibly cross their paths again. TWICE? -remember, in your scenario the blood has to be ID'd too. Then they've got to buy the Crayes exaflop computer (or at least a dozen SPARC stations) just to crunch through the massive database to find the matches.
Remember 9/11? Yeah - it takes months to match on person out of a pool (poor word choice) of 3000.
If they can't keep a good enough track of samples based on identity alone then, yes, they should trash them and start again. That's what you do when you realize that you're not above board. And then, hopefully, you learn.
Let's get the focus back to where it should be: 1) Would DNA surveys solve much? 2) Is it worth the effort? - what are the monetary/resource costs to run a campaign of that magnitude? - what are the "moral" civil costs? - does it really solve anything/is it effective? 3) Are there other things the WADA should put into place before they are ready to take this plunge? 4) Should Jon Hamblen have to race in the women's category because he has two X chromosomes?
ok, parke i get it. I wanted to stir the pot. two questions: What would be a better testing method? Why do we do amniosentisis (sp?) on unborn chitlins?
the dumbest part of this is that the dna testing is only useful if you're trying to ID somebody's blood, right? DNA testing won't show if you're using EPO, HGH, amphetamines, creatine, or any other kind of drug, right? So, even if you're tyler hamilton, and you're accused of doping yourself with your own blood, the dna sample on file at wada will be of absolutly no use. oh, wait, he was accused of doping with somebody elses's blood... i guess it would work for that.
but still, on the list of ways you can cheat, what % of those could be prevented with dna samples? just because they found a bunch of bags of blood in a clinic in spain and they want to know whose they were does not merit dna testing of the whole peleton. and that's not even getting into the civil rights issue, it's just saying it's a stupid investment of time and $ if your objective is to stop or catch cheaters.
Amniocentesis. Again, confusing the issue. Prenatal health monitoring (for mother and child) does not equate with a mandatory DNA registry for WADA.
Isn't there something better we should all (including the WADA) be focusing on? Like improving procedures for current tests?
Trying to fix current problems with a "high-technology" magic pill is bad idea #1 in any "appropriate technologies" engineering course... Diebold electronic voting machines! THAT'S how we'll solve this doping thing!
I think DNA testing is just the next step to fighting a more sophisticated doping program. Back in the day, there wasn't any testing so people used basic simple drugs, even alcohol. The organizers asked, "Hey, did you take anything today?" and the rider would say, "Nope". That was the first drug control. Then more sophisitcated drugs came out like steroids and amphetamines and the organizers got a little leery about all these yellow eyed freaks saying, "Nope. Clean as a whistle. Thanks for the race. I'm going to ride back to my town now. Should be there by morning. I feel great. Must be the exhileration of winning". So they started to use the pee test. Then more drugs and blood doping came into play to beat the pee test and the pee test was catching only those who were hit by unnanounced testing like Bergman. Hence blood testing. And even those who were getting caught were replying, "Nope. Faulty test. Just because they have been using it in hospitals for 35 years, does not mean that it can catch me. I'm a cyclist so I'm much different than a sick person. Faulty". So now the only thing out there, for the moment, that will catch people who worked with Fuentes is DNA testing. Of course, the riders are going to go on about their civil rights being stepped on. We know the real reason is that they don't want to get caught. DNA testing is no more invasive than the pee test or a blood test. It is just the next step. Erik, if you want to fight for rider's rights, then you should have complained about the other forms of testing. But you didn't, so you have no say in the matter. The other tests are no different in terms of privacy. The European peloton is totally dirty and you know that. They brought this upon themselves and this is the next step in cleaning them up. Many people ask why we should care. Let them dope over there. The answer is that with Erik putting on a race next year, and including a kid's race, he is committing to getting kids started on a healthy road in life. And if one of those kids gets hooked on cycling, then he deserves the chance to develop into the best cyclist in the world if he has it in him. And he desveres the chance to do this clean. None of us reading this have had the chance to pursue our dream. I'm still racing and know that only an act of god will allow me to win a major NRC or USPRO event. But I still do it anyways because I love it. There are a few in the Euro peloton who are clean too and who are finishing grand tours. They just may be the best riders in Europe if the field were clean, but we'll never know that. We don't even know their names. Look at Olson on T-Mobile now. He keeps getting better and better and is trying to make a go of his dream. The reality is that he might only one day win a semi-classic because he's being shafted by dopers. The Euro peloton has brought this upon themselves. Guys first started dying in the 80's to dope. Then they started getting arrested and running from hotels. It is the riders and teams that keep upping the anty with more sophisticated doping programs. So too bad boys, leave your DNA at the door and lets see what you can come up with next.
18 comments:
We should all sent our DNA to USAcycling..I'm sending mine today..
If you're innocent, then you've nothing to fear, right?
that's right, if you're innocent, you have nothing to fear. just like if you're not a terrorist, you shouldn;t mind the government listening to your phone calls, reading your email, keeping track of all your credit card purchases, etc.
of course, the UCI is also the org that let the press have access to armstrong's confidential test results 7 year, who smeared white-out all over landis's sample records... but, yeah, you should trust them with your DNA.
with that argument- then who should I trust my urine with when i pee into a cup at nats?
Billy,
I get what you're trying ot say, but what you DID say could be mis-interpreted into a whole other argument (i.e. "How do i know my Urine isn't tampered with", etc.)
I think I would be deeply concerend about mandatory DNA testing.
What if I tested positive for Parkinson's or some other genetic risk factor? Can the insurance company's get acces to that information? Would it be admissable under supenea for any of the 400 paternity disputes per year that I get from all of JMurder's female relatives? If Hamblen tested positive for two X chromosones, does that mean he has to now compete in the women's race - EVEN IF IT IS DOWN'S SYNDROME?
These are all important issues of civil rights and privacy that need to be carefully weighed.
Hopefully by someone much more mature than me.
You've got a very good point, but don't we already charge more for health insurance for those who smoke? Where do we draw the line? If we found bags of blood at USA cycling headquarters and the only way to prove who's blood it is required dna testing, what should we do?
Life insurance, yes. Health insurance, NO, well not yet anyway... So the next time everytime you see some retard lighting up a cancer stick, feel warm and fuzzy that you're subsidizing the retard's health insurance.
Wait,
Um, so if I develop Parkinson's (or ALS, MS, Cancer, etc.) that makes me a "retard"?
Or is it something I do -that developing Creutzfeldt-Jacob from eating meat is commensurate with getting Lung Cancer from smoking?
If you're going to make a counterpoint you might want to think a little more clearly about epedemiology and chance vs. choice.
Anyway, all that is off-topic bullshit.
1) If the WADA can't keep track of bloodsamples then what the fuck are they doing condemning cyclists to career death on the basis of blood tests?
2) Do you know what it takes to to a DNA signature? Even mRNA? Do you really want to spend WADA into the ground having them run these tests to keep a record on hand of any cyclist who might possibly cross their paths again. TWICE? -remember, in your scenario the blood has to be ID'd too.
Then they've got to buy the Crayes exaflop computer (or at least a dozen SPARC stations) just to crunch through the massive database to find the matches.
Remember 9/11? Yeah - it takes months to match on person out of a pool (poor word choice) of 3000.
If they can't keep a good enough track of samples based on identity alone then, yes, they should trash them and start again. That's what you do when you realize that you're not above board. And then, hopefully, you learn.
Let's get the focus back to where it should be:
1) Would DNA surveys solve much?
2) Is it worth the effort?
- what are the monetary/resource costs to run a campaign of that magnitude?
- what are the "moral" civil costs?
- does it really solve anything/is it effective?
3) Are there other things the WADA should put into place before they are ready to take this plunge?
4) Should Jon Hamblen have to race in the women's category because he has two X chromosomes?
ok, parke i get it. I wanted to stir the pot. two questions: What would be a better testing method? Why do we do amniosentisis (sp?) on unborn chitlins?
And yes, hamblin should be allowed to race in both categories, regardless.
the dumbest part of this is that the dna testing is only useful if you're trying to ID somebody's blood, right? DNA testing won't show if you're using EPO, HGH, amphetamines, creatine, or any other kind of drug, right? So, even if you're tyler hamilton, and you're accused of doping yourself with your own blood, the dna sample on file at wada will be of absolutly no use. oh, wait, he was accused of doping with somebody elses's blood... i guess it would work for that.
but still, on the list of ways you can cheat, what % of those could be prevented with dna samples? just because they found a bunch of bags of blood in a clinic in spain and they want to know whose they were does not merit dna testing of the whole peleton. and that's not even getting into the civil rights issue, it's just saying it's a stupid investment of time and $ if your objective is to stop or catch cheaters.
Amniocentesis.
Again, confusing the issue.
Prenatal health monitoring (for mother and child) does not equate with a mandatory DNA registry for WADA.
Isn't there something better we should all (including the WADA) be focusing on? Like improving procedures for current tests?
Trying to fix current problems with a "high-technology" magic pill is bad idea #1 in any "appropriate technologies" engineering course...
Diebold electronic voting machines! THAT'S how we'll solve this doping thing!
And he hasn't really ever raced in anything... you expect him to start next season and do it twice a day?
Thank you mikeb
aren't current blood tests done to monitor the rider's health?
No.
Just no.
dammit i suk
I think DNA testing is just the next step to fighting a more sophisticated doping program. Back in the day, there wasn't any testing so people used basic simple drugs, even alcohol. The organizers asked, "Hey, did you take anything today?" and the rider would say, "Nope". That was the first drug control. Then more sophisitcated drugs came out like steroids and amphetamines and the organizers got a little leery about all these yellow eyed freaks saying, "Nope. Clean as a whistle. Thanks for the race. I'm going to ride back to my town now. Should be there by morning. I feel great. Must be the exhileration of winning". So they started to use the pee test. Then more drugs and blood doping came into play to beat the pee test and the pee test was catching only those who were hit by unnanounced testing like Bergman. Hence blood testing. And even those who were getting caught were replying, "Nope. Faulty test. Just because they have been using it in hospitals for 35 years, does not mean that it can catch me. I'm a cyclist so I'm much different than a sick person. Faulty". So now the only thing out there, for the moment, that will catch people who worked with Fuentes is DNA testing. Of course, the riders are going to go on about their civil rights being stepped on. We know the real reason is that they don't want to get caught.
DNA testing is no more invasive than the pee test or a blood test. It is just the next step. Erik, if you want to fight for rider's rights, then you should have complained about the other forms of testing. But you didn't, so you have no say in the matter. The other tests are no different in terms of privacy. The European peloton is totally dirty and you know that. They brought this upon themselves and this is the next step in cleaning them up. Many people ask why we should care. Let them dope over there. The answer is that with Erik putting on a race next year, and including a kid's race, he is committing to getting kids started on a healthy road in life. And if one of those kids gets hooked on cycling, then he deserves the chance to develop into the best cyclist in the world if he has it in him. And he desveres the chance to do this clean. None of us reading this have had the chance to pursue our dream. I'm still racing and know that only an act of god will allow me to win a major NRC or USPRO event. But I still do it anyways because I love it. There are a few in the Euro peloton who are clean too and who are finishing grand tours. They just may be the best riders in Europe if the field were clean, but we'll never know that. We don't even know their names. Look at Olson on T-Mobile now. He keeps getting better and better and is trying to make a go of his dream. The reality is that he might only one day win a semi-classic because he's being shafted by dopers. The Euro peloton has brought this upon themselves. Guys first started dying in the 80's to dope. Then they started getting arrested and running from hotels. It is the riders and teams that keep upping the anty with more sophisticated doping programs. So too bad boys, leave your DNA at the door and lets see what you can come up with next.
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