some of the more local races excluded pro riders... not every race has to have pros in it... and there should be some more local series races like in mountain biking... if then say... seasliver, sponsored the CBR series in socal and gave a ride to the top u-25 of the series for the next year that would be really cool... some of the pro and bigger amateur teams in their areas should do something like that...
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Not to say that you're wrong, but what would be the motivation for excluding pro racers. Who benefits?
Hey eric i was reading your legends and you need to write about the gallon of milk bet you lost at james house a few yrs back. I can't remember who else did it with you. That was awesome. Snow
I think that offer could still be made with pros in the race no?
I just wish they'd split out the 1/2s at least once a year. It isn't the 2's keeping the racing so hard. Most 1's can hang with the smattering of Pro's that show up. There's rarely a race where the top 5 isn't all Cat 1s.
http://www.eriksaunders.com/legends.hamblen.htm
it seems like in socal we show up and kill everyone and it teaches all the riders to follow wheels rather than to race.. there is a BIG disparity in teh level between the pro riders and then the local 1's and the theh good young riders.. and then a little but further down is the regular guys...
it seems like for a few bucks i would rather see the competition be more even and the racing may improve and the youner riders in socal would learn to actually race rather than follow wheels...
like separating out 2's every once in a while.. its a good idea...
being a 2 myself I wouldn't mind seeing more split races. As someone else said the top 5 in most races are 1's so it's really hard to get any points to upgrade. You might be in the mix and even the first 2 across the line but it doesn't get you squat. Fun, yes, beyond that nothing.
Erok- Niekolas Biskner, what ever happenend to him?
Hey Erik,
Perhaps a bit off topic...
I enjoy reading your blog. Although I don't always agree with you, I am always entertained and respect your insights on matters in and around cycling. Having raced professionally both in Europe and domestically for a number of years perhaps you can shed some light on this issue. Is there some unwritten code or ethics about regular (amateurs) people wearing pro team attire at local races? I was waiting to register for a local race, when I overheard a couple of local 'pros' mocking a fellow Fred about wearing a complete pro attire - socks, shorts, jersey. At the time, I wrote it off as just a bunch of assholes whom may be upset that for whatever reason their cycling career hadn't taken them as far as they thought it should and they had to grind out down here with the regular people. Although, I did readjust my windbreaker to hide my Brooklyn jersey. Then just recently, I was reading the online diary of one the D1 pros, whom at the time I respected. In his diary he blasted a fan that wore a team kit at one of the local events he raced in, I was shocked.
I'll admit I did not grow up participating in bicycle racing and may not understand the culture. I participated in more mainstream sports. I don't think Michael Jordan ever gave a second thought about a fan/amateur wearing his 23. I wouldn't think the sponsors would be upset about fans/amateurs purchasing and displaying the company's logo. It seems to work for NASCAR. So, why cycling? Is the jersey/team kit the only item that confirms one's status as a professional? Thanks in advance for your candid remarks on this subject.
Faux pros should race other faux pros, hack amateurs should race against other hack amateurs, then there would be a pecking order and some faux pros wouldn't look silly when they get beaten by hack amatuers
Sleazy-E,
As long as there is still a plethora (pley-thor-ah) of Pro/Am races for them to do when they turn pro, I think your idea is good. Local races are pretty important for young pros to learn how to win.
Also, when I was younger (so much younger than today) I always thought it was kinda retarded to have amateur only races... I wanted to ride against the best guys I could.
RB
there is a rule against competing wearing the uniform of a team you are not on...
but in local races i think it doesnt matter at all... i have seen guys with ofoto kit in cat 3 races.. i think its cool that a guy likes your team and that it makes him feel good enough that he wants to race in your colors...
in socal a lot of guys in the masters have been known to put on pro team kits, or at least the shorts... i dont mind it a bit...
i agree with you that its a lot the same as a guy putting on 23 to go play ball with his freinds...
you are right.. thats what teh sponsors are paying for in part.. fan support.. so i dont see why guys can get bent if a guy is supporting his team that he routes for... its just haterism...
the line between "pro" and amateur isnt what it used to be... the uci has purposefully combined all riders and rankings to do away with the distinction as it was known.. there are no more amatuer rankings and there are no more amateur championships...
its just guys racing bikes...
there are so many good riders that arent in uci teams.. thats good because the level is getting better... whats the real difference between a pro and amateur?... experience, smarts... thats about it.. because there are a lot of guys with the same legs here...
it doesnt mean anything for a pro rider to be beaten by amateurs.. there are a lot of great amateurs!... there are more good riders than there are uci teams.. so obviously some good riders will be riding in non-uci teams...
shit.. kyle walmsley was 3rd in uspro crit... he has been in a little amateur team for a while.. he didnt get out much.. but this year he got to some good races and showed that he has the level... there are likely a lot of guys like him that havent been heard from... so if some odd guy beats me i am supposed to be upset?... he might be a kyle walmsley type...
bixner is making a lot of money right now growing tulips in SB
and then there are guys that are in these smaler uci teams soley for developmental purposes.. but why are dudes so pissed off because some kid in a team isnt as good as somebody thinks they should be?...
i dont get it...
its just racing bikes... if i can race in a cool team thats gives me free stuff and a little money why shouldnt i?... i should turn it down because some guy thinks i am a "faux pro"?...
you would be silly to turn down an opportunity to do what you love to do and have it be paid for by somebody else... even if you arent getting paid you can at least finally have your expenses paid and go do some nice races and be a part of something cool...
Thanks Erik for your candid remarks.
I'll try to avoid the team kits, as well as, the colors yellow, pink, gold, green, blue, white and polka dot. I guess this leaves only purple, orange and black jerseys, which shouln't offend any of the pros. Or I could wear one of those Primal jerseys which should offend anyone with good taste.
Geo
i think its got to be difficult for a lot of the guys that show up to 'race' but really just end up riding in circles all the time. at some point all the training and time to just ride around in a circle has got to get to you. i think that's why so many guys think they are racing f they are riding near a pro or in a group in an early meaningless move. i think what happens is there are a lot of good guys who are strong, but who never really get to race a bike even though they are racing.
i think you end up with a lot of guys that don't know how to finish a race, or really even understand what's happening in front of them, and that somehow minimizes the experience.
i enjoy seeing pros in the field at the local races, and maybe if their were more pros showing it might be more interesting, at the same time.. i know a lot of ones and twos that are great guys, that just ride around in circles thinking they are racing... and so, the whole sport get's reduced down to what good rider they were next to or what ineffectual break they got suckered into.
i'd like to see some 1,2,3 races sans pro so that some ones get a chance to shine, so that some twos gets forced to ride smart, and so that some three's get a chance to learn and move up. at the same time. its great to see you and others like you at thre races....
i'm just masters/3 trying to find a situation next year where racing a bike is more than just rolling around in circles.... you know what i mean? i wonder if the crits can be longer (for us, not you all).
what would you do if you could change local socal racing (for everybody)? i think the 5's are important too.... everybody starts somewhere, and i respect anyone that takes the time to try it.
i'm always surprised by how few people stick around to watch the pro,1/2 races. what's missing? back in the day when i knew even less about racing than i do now, i remember that a lot of teams showed up and that it was more competitive and required team riding. was that the case (like 4 years ago)?
*note, i really have no idea what i'm talking about... i'm just working with the little bit i think i understand.
n.
you got it...
the good upshoot is that after a few years you would have enough riders to make a pro-1 race.. and a separate 2 field...
If you're on a team or club, race in their official jersey. If you're not, pick a generic jersey and go with it on race day. Save the "USPS" jersery for your non-race days. If you're a worthwhile punk, you'll get all of your buddies to "not" join a team and then you'll all race in the most obnoxious matching (or not... remember, "obnoxious" and "punk") jersey you can stumble across. Do the team tactics some favors by identifying yourself (matching fake tatoos, Festina-hair-dye-jobs) and you'll be more respected than... showing up like you ride for Discovery. Call it an unwritten rule. If you want a written rule, the old USCF stuff said "no world champion stripe jerseys, except for current or past world champs." Hopefully, we've outgrown many of their antiquated-rule habits, but dressing right for the racing game is always, dressing right for the racing game.
"and then there are guys that are in these smaler uci teams soley for developmental purposes.. but why are dudes so pissed off because some kid in a team isnt as good as somebody thinks they should be?..."
It pisses you off when you a nearing 30, trying to hold off the wife from having babies and spending every spare minute and dollar you have training and getting to races so that hopefuly someday you can become a pro. Not all of us were fortunate enough to have cash rich parents to drive us all over hell and back in their landrover to the races, with dad fixing the bike and mom in the feed zone. Some of us didn't even know bicycle racing existed then. And if we had, we wouldn't have been able to do it because we were working to pay our own auto insurance or save for college. Then years later you try to make a go of this thing and bust your ass to get a break, but no... Because you are over the arbitrary UCI 26 yr old rule or whatever, you can't get on a team because some 22 yr old shithead who SUCKS and has never won a race but is sorta strong takes up spots on D3 teams that should rightfuly go to another rider. Meanwhile I am shopping a resume with dozens of regional wins on it, racing in ripped bibs, and trying to beg for a pro deal on aerobars or race wheels.
Or even worse, you are RY and your dad buys a team and pays RW to run it so you can get dropped every week. But you can still talk to the pros as if you are one on them at the races.
whoa... have some babies man... its better...
you are really bitter.. babies are sweet...
but hey... you are a guy that could benefit from my new national tier of teams where you could get good support and be able to continue to race at a high level... and i wouldnt have age requirements... write your usa cycling rep... cycling is such a cool sport that i bet the national tier would end up competitive and important enough where riders would be paid...
i bet it happens...
I Think, If your over 30 and not racing in Europe your racing for fun. Their is only a hand full of guys that are making a living racing in the states. If you have any talent you go to Europe period There are only three good races in the states Lancaster,Trenton and Philadelphia. That's it. Know wonder why its hard to get sponsorship for a D3Team. local Racing is for FUN, THAT IT. You can win all the local racing you what it means Shit. Bruyneel is not going to call you! Hey ANONYMOUS! Your not going to be a Pro your 30, Your marry and she whats kids.YOUR DONE! Kids are great.I sure hope you have a back up plan for your family "You guys take this shit to serious". Slover
Sadams:
I am sorry. I think I may have failed it explain myself clearly. You are correct; yes, I can wear a generic jersey. My point was more to deal with the business of cycling and the apparent ass-backwards culture within cycling. If the sport were ever to grow, I would think pros (however you define them) would want be welcoming to people new to the sport. Various individuals have complained about the lack of races, racers, fans, bike lanes, prize money, teams, support...etc, etc. The solution is very simple...FANS! Fans equal money! People like me spend money on bike equipment, race registration, magazines, etc. All these purchases ultimately contribute to the growth of the biking industry, which also includes racing and racing professionals. The NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB, NASCAR and even the WNBA seem to understand that without the fans their institutions would cease to exist in current states. If as a professional bicyclist, you cannot respect the fan, why should I support you? With the current dismal state of cycling in the US, I would think anyone showing up to a local race would be greeted with open arms. I love the fact that cycling is one the few sports where regular people and professionals intermix in competition. Therefore if a Fred wanted to show up to a local race, with their team kit the proper reaction should be, "Hey, we got another one. This sport is growing!" What certainly will not help grow the sport is a mocking, dismissive, elitist attitude that sadly seems to be a norm. Thanks for considering my points.
Geo
"Or even worse, you are RY and your dad buys a team and pays RW to run it so you can get dropped every week. But you can still talk to the pros as if you are one on them at the races."
I want to know who RY is?
So Cal DEFINITELY needs some local series races.
New York City, which is a horrible town for cycling, has a big local race scene largely because there are races every Tuesday and Sunday every week during the season, right in the city, you can just ride to the races.
There are lots of people who would race, but don't want to spend 4 hours in the car every weekend driving out to the boonies.
And to the guy who was surprised that people don't stick around to watch the pro/1/2 races, who the fuck wants to stand around some dusty parking lot way out to hell and gone with no food, no place to sit, usually no announcer. Plus you've got 2 hours of driving ahead of you that you want to get over with.
If you put on a race that is close by, provide say BBQ and beer, have an announcer, a nice picnic area or something, people will absolutely stick around and watch, AND you'll make money on the food and beer.
John,
I love you like the brother you are.. but holy crap man, when I read your comments I feel like I am talking to a chinese prostitiute... i know what you're saying ("f*cky f*cky sucky sucky, five dolla") I just have to squint to understand it (no offense to any chinese whores reading this). no offense to you john, cuz you are a chinese ho. thanks for my haircut last night.
as for the other guy commenting about me feeling surprised.. what you are saying is right.. which is sort of the point i was trying to make.. i just was being indirect... which is always the lame way to be about these things. but on the other hand... redlands and ojai ae nice little races to watch.. (i'm not even sure what my point is here anymore). oh yeah, if the racing is good, and the community is involved its could draw a little more interest, no?
i know i'm dreamin' fruity things, but in my mind i wish there were enough support ($$$$) that every community had gp or crit.. i wish there were a weekly series, manhattan beach, sunset in the palisades (they close it for the 4th parade and the 10k don't they?), one in downtown LA, one on boystown, one in santa monica, how about brentwood too... and even if it means that i dont get to do it because i'm just a 3... if it were a pro 1/2 only, i'd watch if the racing was good.
what works in philly, trenton, and sf that can't be replicated on a smaller scale?
anyway, the whole point of this comment was to give slover crap cuz he is such a hater. and he is right, this is all for the sake of having fun. that gets lost in the wannabe ness of all this in every category.
ahh whatever, i am on crack. its a great sport, even on the local level.... and i wish more people got sucked into it.
n
slover is a dreamer as well as a hater...
stay away from superweek and stay at home with your family loser...
ok?... shit...
Is that all you got !!!!!!!! Come on. That is true I'm a born again Hater....But serious, I have some Bad Ass friends that race I just get pissed when they get paid peanuts and show up to races without enought guys... They should be paid at lease enought money to buy a nice house have a nice car be marryed have kids.and not to worry about the future. You guys work so hard to be a Pro you should be paid like a PRO!!!!! That's all. But I do like to start SHIT...Erik, Next year I will bring my kids to Superweek. See you in hate land Slover
RY is Robbie Yost and RW is Rene Wenzel. There, I said it.
Geo,
Cycling ('cept for the track...sometimes) doesn't have the fans paying for seats, so we're far, far from the NBA/CFL, all that hooahh, (although I once paid for a "finish area" seat at the worlds RR in 1986). Cycling isn't typically a "whoo-hooo! another bike racer!" sport, unless you're watching 8-year olds take a lap at the local crit, and then, they're wagering between parents involved. We're frequently a cruel, elitist sport. Want proof? Try to talk to people warming up for a race: no smiles, no "hey, glad to see ya," stuff. You MIGHT get that stuff at a stage race where there's pride that you're still on the bike after getting beat silly for 4 hours for the fourth day straight, but it's not frequent. Still (go figure) we race and ride because we love it. The few folks who you'll want to ride with and see at the races as you take on the sport make all the f-ing difference. Our Friend, Mr. Saunders, seems to be one of the guys like this. Someday, I might meet him and ride with him. And when I do, I'll pour a waterbottle on his head.
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